Felix Manalo the 5th angel
His message is no different than the 7th day Adventists 3rd angels message of which he probably was influenced by when he studied with them. Rev 7:2: “Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea.” Manalo claimed to be this angel.
How do they apply this prophecy to a Manalo? They claim the angel in this context means a human messenger. Angels do not preach the gospel so this must refer to a man. But we do find an angel preaching the gospel in Revelation from mid heaven Rev.14:6 “Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth– to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people.” I don’t think he’s using a plane! Angels are creatures that are spirits that dwell in heaven and do God’s bidding to mankind on earth.
Rev.7:1: “After these things” Which they believe is the war described in Rev.6:12-15 which is the first world war, then Rev.7:1 there are four angels mentioned which are they interpreted as men.
Rev 7:2-3: “Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” Who are these other 4 angels who hold back the wind (war) they are:
1. Lloyd George of great Britain
2. Clemenceau of France
3. Orlando of Italy
4. Wilson of the U.S..
Manalo was already preaching “the gospel” in the Philippines so by deduction he is identified as the 5th angel to arise out of the east. Never mind that these other men were not believers, or part of Iglesia’s church. All this makes a very convoluted reasoning to prove something they think is relevant to them from the Bible. The logic of this claim completely fails when in v.2 states “He cried out to the other 4 angels “their is absolutely no evidence he (Manalo) communicated to these other 4 who are called by them angels. The U.S. did not enter the war until 1917 but Manalo points to the date of 1914 as crucial for the fulfillment, this would mean if he spoke to any it was 3 not 4. Not only this, but they participate in sealing 144,000 Jews for the tribulation. Where and when is the tribulation? Did these 4 men do this? Did Manalo do this, I don’t think so. Since when are sinful men called angels; angels that come from heaven?
Angels spoken of in the end of time in the book of Revelation come from heaven. Even if it says from the east it still has its origin in heaven Rev.10:1 “I saw still another mighty angel coming down from heaven, clothed with a cloud. And a rainbow was on his head, his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire.”
Far east or East
Acts 2:39 for the promise is unto you and to your children and to all that are a far off…”this is a promise to Israelites and their generation Manalo interpreted this to mean gentiles but they came up with no explanation how Israelites become Gentiles. But they insist this is their members in the Philippine’s. (read also Acts 2:22.)
There are 48 biblical verses that employ the term a far off and 30 verses that use far off but none of them refer to the Philippines or Far East. Genesis 22:4 and 37.18; Exodus 2:4, 20:18, 20:21, 24:I and 33:7. Jeremiah 23.23, 31:10, 46:27 and 51:50. A far also found in Mark 5:6,11:13,14:54 and 15:40. Luke l6:23, 17:12, 18:13, 22.54, 23:49 and in the book of Revelation, chapter 18 :10, 15 and 17 among others. This is more than enough to show that afar off has been misinterpreted by the INC. In the same way a far off (in the distance) is referred to in Luke 23.49 “And all his acquaintance and women that followed him from Galilee stood afar off beholding these things.” This goes right along with Peters proclamation to the children of Israel in Acts 2:39 “the promise is for you and your children and all who are a far off, for whom the Lord our God will call.”
The only thing that is afar off is their unique interpretation of this passage.
A pillar of the Iglesia belief is that its emergence in the Philippines was prophesied in the Bible. This idea is supposedly found in Isaiah 43:5-6, which states: “Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you; I will say to the north, ‘Give up,’ and the south, ‘Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth.’
Iglesia argues that in this verse Isaiah is referring to the “far east” and that this is the place where the “Church of Christ” will emerge in the last days. This point is constantly repeated in Iglesia literature: “The prophecy stated that God’s children shall come from the far east” (Pasugo, March 1975, p.6).
But the phrase “far east” is not in the text. In fact, in the Tagalog (Philipino) translation, as well as in the original Hebrew, the words “far” and “east” are not even found in the same verse, yet the Iglesia recklessly combine the two verses to translate “far east.” Using this fallacious interpretation Iglesia goes on to claim that the far east refers specifically to the Philippines. Who authorized Mofatt to add the word far to east, when this phrase does not appear in the Greek scripture, Isaiah the prophet only uses East. This is clearly referring to Israel and their being brought back from their captivity into the land.
Consistently and logic seem to be missing on this. While they claim the word Trinity is not found in the Bible an will argue incessantly about this fact neither is the Island Philippine’s, but no one would deny that it does exist!
Iglesia is so determined to convince its followers of this “fact,” that it quotes Isaiah 43:5 from an inexact paraphrase by James Moffat which reads: “From the far east will I bring your offspring.” Citing this mistranslation, one Iglesia work states: “Is it not clear that you can read the words ‘far east’? Clear! Why does not the Tagalog Bible show them? That is not our fault, but that of those who translated the Tagalog Bible from English–the Catholics and Protestant” (Isang Pagbubunyag Sa Iglesia ni Cristo, 1964:131). The Iglesia thus accuses everyone else of mistranslating the Bible, when in fact it is Iglesia who is taking great liberties with the original language. They use the translations that have infamously been used by other cults such as Lamsa’s and Moffatts. Prior to 1923 the Moffat translation was the first to mention this term and is the only one that does, none did before 1923 nor after. This could only be true if the Tagalog version used by INC was translated from Moffatt’s but it was not, so their claim of wrong translation is false.
Their “far east” argument is that the Philippines is the geographic center of the Far East, so the restored Church would come from the Philippines. The problem is that Philippine islands are not the geographic center of the Far East. The Far East includes China, Korea, Japan, East Siberia, the Indo-Chinese countries, and the Philippines. On a map of the Far East the Philippines is on the lower right hand corner. The geographic center would be in Southern China, not in the Philippines. Not only this but the question is who is God calling, its not anyone else but Israel. Certainly Philipino’s’s are not Semetic or Israel. Isaiah is speaking of a regathering into their homeland “I will bring your descendants.” Are Philipinos’ descendent s of Israel?
They also teach God’s messenger will be called from a far country in the east from the Islands of the sea using Isa.46:11: “Calling a ravenous bird from the east. A man who executes my counsel from a far country.”
In Iglesia’s’s doctrine Manalo is that bird who is to preach the true gospel and snatch the true believers as a ravenous bird from the false religions. If one looks at the way birds are used in scripture especially one of prey it is almost unanimously of Satan (Mt.13, Mk.4). As far as executing God’s counsel; because one does God’s purpose does not mean he is God’s messenger. Look a Pharaoh that was raised up to accomplish His purpose. Also Joel 2 in it they are called God’s army and yet they bring judgment on God’s people, and are destroyed by God in the end.
5861 `ayit-a bird of prey, a swooper (Brown driver briggs ) to scream, to shriek; (Qal) to scream 2) to dart greedily, to swoop upon, to rush upon; (Qal) to dart greedily
Isaiah 46:11 refers to Cyrus as “a ravenous bird (called) from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country”; “probably in allusion to the fact that the griffon was the emblem of Persia; and embroidered on its standard” (Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, I, 632) This is correct as far as history goes. Cyrus was used to have the Jews return from Babylon and although he is called Gods shepherd, (Isa. 45) he is not a good shepherd even though he was used by God. He allows Israel to rebuild the temple showing this all already took place in 539-536 B.C.. (compare Isa.46:11 and 44:28, 45:1)
This needs no comment and is self evident: if they want to wear this shoe it certainly fits.
Technorati Tags: Iglesia ni Cristo
Powered by ScribeFire.
NO DEAL I SAY ! No way.
smooth talkers and trickters. they are after your pockets only because it sells a religion they made and they have managed to convinced themselves and others theirs the true church, which is not.
business to build more churches to have more money collection centers.
DID THE CHURCH OF CHRIST COLLECT MONEY FROM YOU CHADCHAD? IF SO, HOW MUCH?
The more I read about them the more I shake my head
just shake it sk until all of the dusts fall off. by then you will be clear-headed. by the time it happenes, you will be ready to listen and accept hard truth. by then, you will be lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky.
hi.
which is the true church?
Church of Christ or Iglesia Ni Cristo.
We Christians are the Church. Any Christian that lives by the word of God from his Bible. There are over 40,000 Christian denominations I have heard that 9000 denominations say if you are not a member of their Church you are in the wrong. There are about 7,000 roman denominations. I think the roman denominations was included with the 40,000. My friend study the Bible and find a Bible believing Church. It is good that you are seeking answers.
I encounter a lot of people from this organization,
most of the time i shake my head too whenever i get to see
articles about them. But man think twice… they never lost
debates… i’ll check out some links where protestant and
roman catholic priests converted themselves and joined them.
i’ll post the links by and by. by the way im a jew.
There have actually been, over the years, many that have converted to the Iglesia. Even the hardcore Catholics and protestants have converted. Many of the words posted on here by people not aware of ALL of the lessons taught within the Church are given biased views, only picking what they want and giving their own interpretation in order to turn away the views of those seeking the truth.
It is better to ask about the Church in person than online where it is common to see many sites that go against the Church so that you can gain a better understanding.
I become one of them before. I get out from this cult group after reading the whole book of the new testament while on the high seas. The same reaction that I did, I just shook my head,until all the dust of my head fall off, as what certain ric commented above. Seeking for a true salvation is not a kind of joke. I just feel pitty on your soul “RIC”…
I had a friend a few years ago I tried to help her but she was so brain washed
Its funny you can only talk to one of their ministers I was told by a member. They don’t want members to debate non members. They even have it set up to where you have to go through the main Felix Manalo headquarters. You will not find web sites for their churches at different locations. This is how cults work. We should all pray from them.
why do you fret if we dont have an official website? why dont you go to our headquarter instead of crying out loud over the internet?, and besides, if you are really interested in the truth, why dont you go the source of it? just like when you’re thirsty, you go to a water faucet, or to a gas stove? which one will you?
you shouldn’t be so harsh on this church. i believe, let them be. who cares what they think as long as these people feel they hae a purpose. don’t say this is a scam either.
Try to check out how these INC debate, so aggressive and always find a way to get out of the topic and does not answer questions and just keep on pressing on, “Ha?” “what?” “that’s your opinion” and so on… look at INC debate vs. Keating.. it’s cool, they set it up to shout down the apologetic guy but looks like they failed.. HAAA! =)
Le us show it has no reason together
The following is a point by point rebuttal concerning the main article posted by an anti-INC website “Let Us Reason together”. His message is no different than the 7th day Adventists 3rd angels message of which he probably was influenced from when he studied with them. Rev 7:2: “Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea.” Manalo claims to be this angel.
How do they apply this prophecy to a Manalo? They claim the angel in this context means a human messenger. Angels do not preach the gospel so this must refer to a man.
That is not just our claim but that is what the bible tells and shows us.If we are talking about heavenly angel according to the bible their mission is just to deliver a short message to humans as was the case of Mary the mother of Christ.
And also this has been shown in one of the incident in the bible in Acts 10 in the story of Cornelius conversion by Apostle Peter.
if the angels are allowed to preach the gospel why would God bother to fetch Peter when the angel is readily available at that moment?
But why is it men like Peter are the only one’s who has authority to preach the gospel? Because they were the one’s appointed to be ministers not heavenly angels(1 cor. 3:6) and it was to humans whom Christ authorized to preach until the end of time (Matth. 28:19-20)
But we do find an angel preaching the gospel in Revelation from mid heaven Rev.14:6 “Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth– to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people.” I don’t think he’s using a plane! Angels are creatures that are spirits that dwell in heaven and do Gods bidding to mankind on earth.
Let us analyze it based on the biblical facts i presented above. Was there any pronouncement from the bible that the angel was given authority to preach like the ones mentioned of the apostles? None!
So how should we understood it without assuming something that is not mentioned in the bible.
firstly, we must understand that the word angel do not only refer to heavenly beings but also used of human when describing their function before God.
The word angel does not only refer to beings that are spirit in nature but also to human beings as long as they are “sent” by God. The word angel itself comes from the Greek word aggelos, which means messenger. Furthermore, Bible scholars attest that angel also refers to a pastor who is a human being:
“Ang’-el-os:…a messenger;…by impl. A pastor: -angel, messenger.” (Strong’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, p. 7:32)
Therefore an angel could be either a spirit or a man in the state of being. Scholars and religious writers agree that the term angel denotes the office and not the state of being of the one being sent. John the Baptist, although a man, is called an angel because he was sent to prepare the way of the Lord Jesus (cf. Jn. 1:6; Mt. 11:7-10, Douay-Rheims Version)
However, not only are the messengers of God that preach God’s words are referred to as angels in the Bible, but also heads of states are referred to as angels which proves that not in all cases they are religious or spiritual in nature. For instance, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, was a pagan; yet he was sent by God (cf. Jer. 43:10). The Persian king Cyrus, too, was sent although he did not worship God (cf. Is. 44:28; 45:1). Hence, belief in God among heads of states is not a necessary condition for them to be sent by God. A person is God’s messenger so long as God chose him for a specific task or to fulfill a certain prophecy. But take note, he has to be “chosen” by God.”
Secondly, flying in heaven should not be understood literally as it is well known that many statements especially in Revelations are symbolical. The fulfillment of rev. 14:6 is not about a heavenly angel but to a human with authority to preach among many nations.As we have shown from the bible it is the the ministers like the apostles who has the authority to preach the good news of reconciliation. Certainly, Apostle paul was the fulfillment of this prophecy.He was the one who preaced the message stated in the prophecy (Acts 14:6-7, 14-15).according to the commissioning he received from the Lord, it was he who would pioneer the conversion of the gentiles to the Church of Christ, by delivering to them the Good News of salvation (Acts 17:22-31; Rom. 15:16).
Rev.7:1: “After these things” Which they believe is the war described in Rev.6:12-15 which is the first world war, then Rev.7:1 there are four angels mentioned which are then interpreted as men. Rev 7:2-3: “Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” Who are these other 4 angels who hold back the wind (war) they are 1. Lloyd George of great Britain 2. Clemenceau of France 3. Orlando of Italy 4. Wilson of the U.S..
Manalo was already preaching “the gospel” in the Philippines so by deduction he is identified as the 5th angel to arise out of the east. Never mind that these other men were not believers, or part of Iglesia’s church. The logic of this claim completely fails when in v.2 states “He cried out to the other 4 angels “their is absolutely no evidence he (Manalo) communicated to these other 4 who are called by them angels.
“We do not teach that. We have never said that Brother Felix Manalo communicated with any of the Big Four nor did we ever say that the Big Four acknowledged that they were the four angels mentioned in Revelation 7:1.
The cry of the other angel should not be taken literally. It signifies the stark contrast between his work which is evangelization and salvation and that of the four angels which was purely secular and had something to do with the destruction through war. Whether or not the Big Four acknowledged that they were the four angels mentioned in that prophecy does not alter the truth that they fulfilled the prophecy concerning the angels that held the winds in Revelation 7:1.”
The U.S. did not enter the war until 1917 but Manalo points to the date of 1914 as crucial for the fulfillment, this would mean if he spoke to any it was 3 not 4. Not only this, but they participate in sealing 144,000 Jews for the tribulation. Did these 4 men do this? Did Manalo do this, I don’t think so. Since when are sinful men called angels that come from heaven?
“The four angels or the Big Four, , performed their tasks in the Peace Conference in 1919. It was during this time that the other angel was seen in a vision ascending from the east, not during or before the entrance of the United States in the war.
The Big Four were called angels in the prophecy because they were messengers (angels) of their respective nations (cf. I Pt. 2:13 -14; Is. 14:32). They were Wilson of the U.S.A. , Lloyd George of Great Britain , Orlando of Italy, and Clemenceau of France.
Leaders of nations are also called by the Bible as “ministers of God” (cf. Rom. 13:3-4). They are sent neither to preach the gospel nor to establish a nation of God, but to serve God’s purpose similar to that which was fulfilled by leaders of ancient nations who, whether they acknowledged Him or not, were sent by God and called by Him as His servants.
The pagan Nebuchadnezzar was sent by God: “… Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon , my servant…” (Jer. 43:10-11).
Of Cyrus, God said, “He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure” (Is. 44:28).
“Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; …” (Is. 45:1). Babylon and Persia were not the chosen nations of God in ancient times. And yet their leaders had once served God’s purpose.”
Angels spoken of in the end of time in the book of Revelation come from heaven.Even if it says from the east it still has its origin in heaven Rev.10:1 “I saw still another mighty angel coming down from heaven, clothed with a cloud. And a rainbow was on his head, his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire.”
what he failed to realize is that this angel is ascending and not descending or descending from heaven to be exact.And he must also prove that this angel from Rev 10:1 is the same as the angel from the east.not only that, he must also prove that the term angel is not also used of human sent by God.
Far east or East
Acts 2:39 for the promise is unto you and to your children and to all that are a far off…”this is a promise to Israelites and their generation Manalo interpreted this to mean gentiles but they came up with no explanation how Israelites become Gentiles. But insists this is members in the Philippine’s. Read also Acts 2:22.
This is an ignorant attack,we do have explanation and we never claim that the Israelites are gentiles.. let me cite again that verse in another translation to show that the promise is not exclusive to the Israelites
“For it was to you that the gift was promised, to you and your children, and to all those in distant times and places whom the Lord our God calls him.”(Acts 2:39.Rieu Translation)
As prophesied, the three groups of people that would comprise the Church of Christ are: (1) the Jewish converts to Christianity (the first fruits who followed Jesus)or those who joined the Church in Jerusalem(2)the Gentile converts who were begotten through the preaching of Apostle Paul; and (3)the members of the Church of Christ (Iglesia ni Cristo)that reemerged through the preaching function of Brother Felix Y. Manalo. There are 48 biblical verses that employ the term a far off and 30 verses that use far off but none of them refer to the Philippines or Far East. Genesis 22:4 and 37.18; Exodus 2:4, 20:18, 20:21, 24:I and 33:7. Jeremiah 23.23, 31:10, 46:27 and 51:50. A far also found in Mark 5:6,11:13,14:54 and 15:40. Luke l6:23, 17:12, 18:13, 22.54, 23:49 and in the book of Revelation, chapter 18 :10, 15 and 17 among others. This is more than enough to show that afar off has been misinterpreted by the INC. In the same way a far off (in the distance) is referred to in Luke 23.49 “And all his acquaintance and women that followed him from Galilee stood afar off beholding these things.” This goes right along with Peters proclamation to the children of Israel in Acts 2:39 “the promise is for you and your children and all who are a far off, for whom the Lord our God will call.”
thefar-off mentioned in Acts 2:39 do not only refer to a place but also to time.
“For it was to you that the gift was promised, to you and your children, and to all those in distant times and places whom the Lord our God calls him.”(Acts 2:39.Rieu Translation) That is why you cannot also say that these are literal children of the israelites during that time.
Then who are these pople that is also called children of the Jews and how did they became children?
“But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, Nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. (Rom. 9:6-8, NKJV)
So we see here from apostle Paul very clearly that there are those who are counted as the seed but not of the flesh but of the promise. And the promise was given to three groups of people, The Jews and the Gentiles and to those who are in distant times and distant places
A pillar of Iglesia belief is that its emergence in the Philippines was prophesied in the Bible. This idea is supposedly found in Isaiah 43:5-6, which states: “Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you; I will say to the north, ‘Give up,’ and the south, ‘Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth.’
Iglesia argues that in this verse Isaiah is referring to the “far east” and that this is the place where the “Church of Christ” will emerge in the last days. This point is constantly repeated in Iglesia literature: “The prophecy stated that God’s children shall come from the far east” (Pasugo, March 1975, p.6).
But the phrase “far east” is not in the text. In fact, in the Tagalog (Filipino) translation, as well as in the original Hebrew, the words “far” and “east” are not even found in the same verse, yet the Iglesia recklessly combine the two verses to translate “far east.” Using this fallacious interpretation Iglesia goes on to claim that the far east refers specifically to the Philippines. Who authorized mofatt to add the word far to east when this phrase does not appear in the Greek scripture Isaiah only uses East. this is referring to Israel and their being brought back from captivity.
why don’t they look at the tagalog version of Good News bible?It say’s ‘dulong silangan’ is it not an equivalent of far east?Now,to claim that far east is not in the original herew is another show of ignorance.
In Hebrew, there are two words used for east kedem (near east) and mizrach (far east).
Just because other translation do not have the word afar connected with east, does not mean it is not in the Far East, nor does it mean that they are incorrect. If you read verse 5 of the KJV it says. “…I will “bring” thy seed from the east…,” then in verse 6 it says, “bring” my son from afar..,” Therefore, Far East, regardless if they are connected or not, the grammar is very clear here. So you cannot biblically deny that God will bring His sons from afar and from the east. And the Moffatt translation only confirmed this when his version appeared only further giving strength to our doctrinal stand. And with careful observation and study of scripture you can see there are other verses and translations besides the Moffatt translation to support the location as that of the Far East.
While they claim the word Trinity is not found in the bible neither is the Island Philippine’s, but no one would deny that it does exist !
There is no comparison here, Philippines is a name of a country which was used 1500 years after the completion of the Bible. However the location of this land has been in the far east even before the bible the prophecy was mentioned and it has never chaged its position
About the trinity its not true that no can can deny that it does not exist not only the name per se in the bible but the concept as well!Here i’ll just quote one proving that it is not only the name but the entire concept is unbiblical!
Encyclopaedia Britannica (15th edition, 1974, vol. 10, p. 126, Micropaedia)
“Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema of the Old Testament: Deut. 6:4: ‘Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our [Elohim] is One. Or as translated in the Tanakh: Deut. 6:4: Hear, O Israel! The Lord [Yahweh] is our God, the Lord [Yahweh] alone.”
Iglesia is so determined to convince its followers of this “fact,” that it quotes Isaiah 43:5 from an inexact paraphrase by James Moffat which reads: “From the far east will I bring your offspring.” Citing this mistranslation, one Iglesia work states: “Is it not clear that you can read the words ‘far east’? Clear! Why does not the Tagalog Bible show them? That is not our fault, but that of those who translated the Tagalog Bible from English–the Catholics and Protestant” (Isang Pagbubunyag Sa Iglesia ni Cristo, 1964:131).
some parts has been answered above..but i will dig into his accusation that this verse is a mistranslation..what other book testifies in the correctness of moffat’s translation?
Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible (p. 637) has this to say on this Hebrew term:
“The Hebrew terms descriptive of the east differ in idea, and, to a certain extent, in application; (1) kedem properly means that which is before or in front of a person, and was applied to the east from the custom of turning in that direction when describing the points of the compass, before, behind, the right and the left,… (2) mizrach means the place of the sun’s rising, and strictly answers to the Greek anatole and the Latin oriens; … mizrach is used of the far east with a less definite signification (Is. Xli. 2, 25, xliii. 5, xlvi. 11).”
Therefore the use of ‘far east” by moffat for the hebrew term “mizrach” is firmly base on proper textual exegesis. The Iglesia thus accuses everyone else of mistranslating the Bible, when in fact it is Iglesia who is taking liberties with the original language. They use the translations that have infamously been used by other cults such as Lamsa’s and Moffatts. Prior to 1923 the Moffat translation was the first to mention this term and is the only one that does, none did before 1923 nor after. This could only be true if the tagalog version used by INC was translated from Moffatts but it was not, so their claim of wrong translation is false.
who said that moffat is infamous? “The book entitled The Oxford Companion to the Bible (ed. Metzger and Coogan, 1993) does not agree with the view that Moffatt’s translation of the Bible is never heard among many Bible scholars or students of theology. The said book which has more than 250 contributors, representing “the international community of scholars, coming from some twenty countries, on five continents,” states on page 761:
“The translation that made the greatest impact upon the Bible-reading public, though, was that of the Scottish scholar James Moffatt . . . His translation of the Old Testament appeared in 1924 and the whole Bible was revised in 1935. He spent the last years of his life as Professor of Church History at Union Theological Seminary, New York , and at the time of his death (1944), he was working on a translation of the Apocrypha.”
Prof Metzger is a well respected bible scholar The “far east” argument by saying that the Philippines are the geographic center of the Far East, so the restored Church would come from the Philippines. The problem is that Philippine islands are not the geographic center of the Far East. The Far East includes China, Korea, Japan, East Siberia, the Indo-Chinese countries, and the Philippines. On a map of the Far East the Philippines is on the lower right hand corner. The geographic center would be in Southern China, not in the Philippines. Not only this but the question is who is he calling, Israel. Certainly Filipino’s’s are not Semetic or Israel. Isaiah is speaking of a regathering into their homeland “I will bring your descendants.
we do not base the prophecy on the philipines being in the geopgraphic center or not.This they can debate with the historians and geographers. The fact that the Philippines is in the far east fulfilled one of identity of the propesied place.
They also teach Gods messenger will be called from a far country in the east from the Islands of the sea using Isa.46:11: “Calling a ravenous bird from the east. A man who executes my counsel from a far country.”
In Iglesia’s’s doctrine Manalo is that bird who is to preach the true gospel and snatch the true believers as a ravenous bird from the false religions. If one looks at the way birds are used in scripture especially one of prey it is almost unanimously of Satan (Mt.13, Mk.4). As far as executing Gods counsel Because one does Gods purpose does not mean he is Gods messenger. Look a Pharaoh that was raised up to accomplish his purpose. Also Joel 2 in it they are called Gods army and yet they destroy and bring judgement on his people, and are destroyed by God in the end.
5861 `ayit-a bird of prey, a swooper (Brown driver briggs ) to scream, to shriek; (Qal) to scream 2) to dart greedily, to swoop upon, to rush upon; (Qal) to dart greedily
Isaiah 46:11 refers to Cyrus as “a ravenous bird (called) from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country”; “probably in allusion to the fact that the griffon was the emblem of Persia; and embroidered on its standard” (Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, I, 632) This is correct as far as history goes. Cyrus was used to have the Jews return from Babylon and although he is called Gods shepherd, (Isa. 45) he is not a good shepherd even though he was used by God. He allows Israel to rebuild the temple showing this all already took place in 539-536 B.C.. (compare Isa.46:11 and 44:28, 45:1)
His arguments were mainly based on probabilities devoid of solid biblical basis. The prophecy called this man as a ravenous bird because of his work to snatch away just like what a literal bird of prey do.Cyrus never did accomplish that kind of task, except for having a pagan symbol.since when did God recognized a vestige of paganism? Does God recognizes this work ascribed to other gods or does God recognizes other gods?
Isa 45:5 – “I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me;
now,he also has to answer the following.
1. Can he show me that Persia being in the east or even israel are composed of islands for this is where God’s people would be brought?
2. Did the verse said “bring back” or just “bring”? what did the scholars admit regarding this.
“VITRINGA understands it of the spiritual “seed” of the Church produced by mystical regeneration: for the expression is, “bring,” not “bring back.” (Jamison Fausset Brown)
These truths silence the INC detractors
I’m calling bs Alfred. You said “we do not base the prophecy on the philipines being in the geopgraphic center or not.This they can debate with the historians and geographers.” Alfred, I personally went to one of your INC big events last year at a convention center in my area. I listened to an INC head honcho muckidy muck give a talk along with a power point presentation and he was definitely trying to sell people on the so-called far east prophecy by saying that the Philipines are in the “exact geographical center of the far east”. I heard him say it with my own ears, so did the thousand or so rest of the people in attendance. Now why I ask for the love of God would someone in his position of authority have to lie and dupe people to win his arguement. Is he that stupid or just ignorant of the fact that the Philipines are not in the “geographical” center of the far east. No, he was just trained and brainwashed tell untruths like all the rest of the INC preachers and members, and that’s all you’ve got to convince people with is lies and false teachings. Just smoke and mirrors. You guys should really examine what your being taught instead of being so gullible and taking what the INC administration tells you at face value.
These clear explanations by the Iglesia ni Cristo about verses in the Bible just don’t come from mere human comprehension but from real messengers of God. This is the real church established by our Lord Jesus Christ for man to attain salvation.
Yeah Rex crystal clear explanations alright. I’d say muddy at best. I will quote your INC buddy Alfred from an earlier post.
“In Hebrew, there are two words used for east kedem (near east) and mizrach (far east).
Just because other translation do not have the word afar connected with east, does not mean it is not in the Far East, nor does it mean that they are incorrect. If you read verse 5 of the KJV it says. “…I will “bring” thy seed from the east…,” then in verse 6 it says, “bring” my son from afar..,” Therefore, Far East, regardless if they are connected or not, the grammar is very clear here.”
I don’t claim to be a Hebrew scholar and I’m pretty sure either is Alfred, but here is what acutal experts have to say for
1) Kedem:
Lot, then, journeyed not “from the east” as Rashi earlier explained with so much geographical difficulty, but rather “from KEDEM,” where “Kedem” is not used as the generic word for “east” but rather as the specific place name at which Avram had established their home.
So kedem usually refers to east but in some cases refers to a specific place. As explained on the web page “Torah on the Web”
2) Mizrach:
In Judaism, mizrah (Hebrew: מזרח “east”) is the direction to be faced during prayer. The word also designates the wall of the synagogue facing this direction, where seats are reserved for the rabbi and other dignitaries, and an ornamental wall plaque used to indicate the direction of prayer in Jewish homes. Also can mean “sunrise” according to another Hebrew dictionary.
No reference to mizrach meaning “far east” can be found in any Hebrew dictionary that I could find.
So they don’t even have the correct definitions of the hebrew words in their arguement.
I also love the logic that they use, quote
“Just because other translation do not have the word afar connected with east, does not mean it is not in the Far East, nor does it mean that they are incorrect.”
Really…well it sure the heck doesn’t make it a stone cold fact to base a religion on either, especially considering that the words in question aren’t even in the same verse. Basically the INC are preaching words out of context AND wrong defintions. Not surprising because I’ve seen other examples of how they twist meanings and add words to scriptures to fool people. I probably shouldn’t pick on Alfred too much because I’m sure he’s just repeating what he’s read in Pasugo.
a tree is stoned because it has plenty of fruits.
So many detractors! The church is now 94 years since it’s registration with the Phil government and 40 years in the west. It’s in all 6 continents, 60+ countries and 48 states of the U.S. It’s members belongs to 120+ nationalities and races. You have to at least be curious and check it out. Don’t be afraid of the unknown. See, seek and understand.
Yeah Joki I was curious, I’ve attended many worship services in different locations, been to many of the bible studies, attended some regional events, and the members that I know are very nice people BUT this is what I have observed. The Iglesia ni Cristo (INC) Church of Christ is comprised of 95% Filipinos. They claim their religion was prophesied in the bible and only their members get into heaven. It sounded kinda like a cult to me a first, but was I even more convinced after being around it awhile. The INC Administration is on a power trip like no other. Worship sevice attendance twice a week is mandatory (my friends and relatives who are members have to plan their entire lives and vacations around going to church), they say it’s about the INC tending to the flock, but it’s about control. Men and women are segregated during the worship service, they say it’s about orderliness, but again it’s about control. I think all the sermons took at least one or two pot shots at the Catholics and their beliefs and how the INC is better because they don’t teach anything that isn’t in the bible. Funny thing, I don’t remember reading in the bible that men and women must be segregated in church, or that church members must sign an attendance card, or Thusday services are mandatory. Also members are forbidden from marrying or having relationships with non-members. Their so called bible studies are indoctrinations where you are told that the INC is the only true church and it’s founder Felix Manalo (God’s messenger)is prophisied in the bible as the minister flips from one unrelated passage to another and to versions of the bible most people have never heard of (the George Lamsa Bible, The Moffatt Bible)to try to convince (sell) you. These guys are the kings of cut and paste preaching. All of the worship services in all of the locations that I’ve been to in different states and countries have the same M.O. It is a sad, morose, and depressing environment compared to the joyous, uplifting church services that I remember as a kid. The Ministers will tell you what a terrible sinner you are and how wicked the world is and will ALWAYS work themselves up into a sobbing frenzy (at the same point in every time, like on cue) along with many of the church members. I also got to see what a children’s Sunday school class was like and I will never forget the way the youth minister was practically shouting and having the children repeat phrases over and over crossing the line into what many would call brainwashing. It actually made me feel sick to see how they teach the young children. I can’t belief the parents go along with this but the “Administration” is all powerful in the INC. It is truely surreal. I think you really have to see it to believe it, it’s that strange. I could go on about their propaganda magazine and TV channel (GEM tv) and the misinformation that they spew or how they are told who to vote for in every political election. Yeah Joki you maybe right in what you said “the INC is in all 6 continents, 60+ countries and 48 states of the U.S. It’s members belongs to 120+ nationalities and races”, but so are diseases like cancer and AIDS.
Its clear in any situation of the propecy in the bible in general, it is pertaining to Israel and Jewish people perhaps, Why that many people are claiming they are the one on the propecy of the prophets in the Bible. Anyway Jesus told as many will claim for the TITTLE of messiah and will lead many………….. about the “FAR EAST” obiosly this is not PHilippines or any country in south east asia. WHY?, when the prophets told about this propecy less than thousand year before Jesus Christ birth the geographical map location is centered on mediterenean sea, on the north is Europe, south is Africa, west side is Spain,Moroc,Gibraltar and the far easter is ISRAEL and other arabs country.”Asia manor and Asia majoria”. particularly jewish decendant thats leave on the jewish land. NO ALLEGATION…. Felix Manalo does not have jewish blood…
I couldn’t agree more but the Iglesia ni Cristo are based in the Philipines, so of course if someone from there claims to be a messenger of God and is preaching that the filipinos are God’s chosen people and sells them a story based on some loose translations of the holy bible (and deliberate deceptions)many filipinos are going to buy into it. They are a very proud and patriotic people and Manalo’s church gives them hope. A false hope but hope none-the-less.
eric,
Filipinos are not all hopeless people, nevertheless, not all Filipinos are idiots aas what your commentary is impying. Let’s take it at the standpoint of members who are scholars. they are not idiots to buy out ideas preached to them if they dont have faith in it. the mere fact they adhere to the Church means that they believe in the teachings and the doctrines.
When you said it gives false hope, it doesnt. and besides, we are Bible based. Does the Bible give false hope, Eric?
correction: implying
As far as them being in so many different countries it is like this. The Pilipino people are also in different country traveling to find work if you will notice that most of the member are phillipino even in US . It is more like a social place for them to socialize with their kind. I feel sorry for the thousands of people they have fooled promising them riches I heaven or burning in hell. They are all ways telling the members not to miss church and not to leave the church if they are so sure about the church why do the worry about you leaving.
check the authenticity of your claim. someone must have fooled you in believing such!~
Quite a brainstorm here. The Emblem of the INC is quite similar to the Emblem of the freemasons http://pinoyexchange.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28569807&postcount=1900 . Is Mr.Manalo somehow related to the freemasons? If so, does this answers their inevitable success and not by the help of god? Are all their stepping stones already placed in front of them?
I didn’t know that, Interesting
their was stepping stones for hitler
i would just like to say that every single of of us has his own belief…
i meet a lot of people everyday who are of different religions or no religions at all…non-believers of God- in short…
we should respect one another….
especially on what we believe in…
it is not that INC members want debates or alike but they just want to point something out…
and it is up to us whether we believe in it or not…
if we don’t, then let’s just go on with oiur lives…
if we want to explore or listen to some of their lectures…it’s our freedom of choice…
try if we could…try if we would like…
this topic is actually a “taboo” in our school since many students have different beliefs and many of them don’t believe in God…
some of them (this had shocked me once…) don’t even know Who ar What God is…
can you imagine…
but what is amazing is that they try to find out or hear something about God…
then that’s it…
Enlightening….
and the bottom line…
Respect
Explore
Believe…
Good Day Po!
Jhane, I suppose you are an INC member. If you are, you should tell INC ministers and members to respect Catholic beliefs.
i suppose you’re a FILIPINO christian.if you are,you should realized your religion did not pioneer in your country.i would be proud i joined a religion that has contributions of righteousness to mankind to almost every part of the world for many years now.and it originally started in the Philippines.
No doubt… The INC made a point to dis on Catholic beliefs at just about every service that I’ve been to.
But, have your realised that the Catholic religion has the most flaws compared to any other religion out there?
Further more….. on the emblem resembling a masonic sybol. the dove on the top, looks like the all seing eye, with the rays of sun shine coming from it. also high level masonry is satanic. When satist do satanic rituals the victom is inside of the circle or triangle….where is Christ the lamb, and the bible withen the emblem. Just like the Cathlic church crucifies Jesus everyday by nailing him on the cross. This Church sacrifices him every day in the triangle.
Scholarly based. bravo, clap clap. to thwart and give your own interpretation just to lambast the church. Oh how lovely it is!
http://www.maps.com/map.aspx?pid=15556
http://www.maps.com/map.aspx?pid=15556
This historic black and white map, entitled “The Philippine Islands as the Geographical Center of the Far East,” shows the Far East in 1900–two years after the Philippines were taken, then purchased from Spain by the US following the Spanish American War.
The 1900 Philippines map features:
• The Far East as it was in 1900
• Country borders and waterways
• Major cities, provinces
Coverage Area: The Philippine Islands, Empire of China, Mongolia, Tibet, Empire of Japan, New Guinea, Australia, Caroline Islands, Sunda Islands, Sumatra, Java, Indian Ocean, Sea of Java, China Sea, Sea of Banda, Timor Sea
For those who are wondering about this Church, it is best to ask the ministers themselves rather than trying to figure it out on your own or with others online. There are many things that can be said that are probably not even said in the Church that can dissuade you.
From what I have seen, everything is based upon what is said in the Bible. The reason for attendance is, I believe to keep track of their members–their sheep. Is it not a shepherd’s job to keep track of his sheep?
Basically, ASK THEM IN PERSON SO THAT CONFUSION WILL BE PREVENTED.
Oh Dear indeed….although it did provide a kind of twisted entertainment to dunk in my morning coffee.
Much of what I read here demonstrates Bill Hick’s great maxim : It’s just a ride. The important thing is the difference between the people who have forgotten they are on a ride, and those who don’t forget – they know how to get off the ride, they see it for what it is, and therefore enjoy it that much more.
Liberté, égalité, fraternité.
I don’t think Felix himself has the capability to fully understand the bible. It is said that he attended a school named “Pacific School of Religion in California”, but when the records was checked whether this is true or not, it was proven false. Here is a link to the scanned message the Registrar of that school sent to solidify this claim.
http://www.examineiglesianicristo.com/honesty2.html
So if your so called angel was able to lie about this small detail in front of your faces, how much more can you trust him with bigger things? Like let’s say… a chosen religion? As far as I know, angels -I think- never lie.
GOD Bless you all…..what ever you believe’s as your GOD may he blessed you….have faith…I’m a member of INC and it takes 6 years to understand and build strong foundation which proves in to my life. All the blessing in my life…whom should I say thank you,..to those statues?..To those priest? To kneel down and kiss those crucifix signes? No one ever teach me the most right way to worship a the real GOD only this INC you are insulting….just leave us and you’ll see….
GRABI NAMAN ANG MEMBRO NYO SA IGLESIA NI CRISTO SANA GAWAN ITO PANSIN HINDI NYO BA CONTROL MEMBER NYO? SULAT NG PAMANKIN KO TO SA NG YARI SA KANYA PUTA NA MAG INA YAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dapat ko ito ipa alam sa lahat dahil hindi ito tama na bali wala o hayaan nalang na may ganito nang yari sa buhay ko at maranasan pa ng iba at ito rin ang sinabi (Proverb 28:13 You will never succeed in life if try to hide your sin Confess them and give them up. Then God will show mercy on you) hindi na ako na asinso sa buhay ko nung nakilala ko pamilya na ito nung naka tira pa ako sa church marami pa ako nagawa sa buhay ko pero pag dating nila wala na kundi puru nalang kakahiyan at sa ginagawa nila hindi ako makapag salita o masa bihan ng poblema ko dahil ako ang pinag bibintangan ng lahat. Kaya ngayun kinukumpisa ko na ang na c esteleta ay…..
AKO-AY INABUSAHAN SA PAMAMAGITAN NG VERBAL ABUSE AT SEXUAL ABUSE AT TAGO NA RELASYON NOON, AKO AY HINDI MAKAPAG SABI KAHIT KANINO ( MALIBAN SA KUNTI KUNG KAI BIGAN NA KA IDAD KO ) AT TAON AKO AY NAGHIRAP NAPATAGO NA HINDI MO MAKITA SA KUNSINSYA AT KAHIHIYAN AT PARANG WALANG PAG-ASA SA SARILI AT PAKIRAMDAM KO NA INIWAN AKO NG DIOS AT ANG PANALANGIN KO AY PARANG HINDI NARIRINIG NG DIOS AT WALANG SAGUT GALING SA DIOS AT SA TAGAL NITO PALALIM NG PALALIM NA INDI AKO MAKAHANAP NG TULONG, SYA AY IBANG-IBA PAG NASA BAHAY AT SA CHURCH O SA LABAS NG BAHAY, LUMIPAT KAMI NG TIRAHAN ILANG BISIS NA PAG MA PANSIN NG KAPIT BAHAY AT MA PAMALITA SA TAO AT SINABI NYA SA AKIN PAG MAY TAO NAG TANONG KUNG KAANO KO SILA ( KASINUNGALINGAN ANG SAGUT) NA ANAK AKO. GINAWA PA AKO BALIW O ROBOT AT PAKIRAMDAM KO SARADO UTAK KO NA HINDI KO ALAM ANG GAGAWIN KO LALO NA PAG AKO ANG PINAG BUBUGTUNGAN NG GALIT AT SINISIGAWAN NYA AKO AT BASTUS LANG ANG LUMALAS SA BIBIG PURO PANINIRA AT SINI-SISI AKO O PINAG BIBINTANGAN NA AKO ANG MAY KASALANAN NG LAHAT NILASON NYA ISIP KO AT HINO HUSGAHAN AKO SA MGA BAGAY NA MAKAKASIRA NG ULO NA HINDI MO NA ALAM O AKALAIN AT CONTROLING AT MANUPALATE AT ANG RESULTA AY HINDI MO NA ALAM PANO AYOSIN ANG POBLIMA AT SYA AY HANAP NG PARAAN PARA HINDI AKO MAKA PUNTA SA KA GRUPO KO NA 99 BOIZ PAG MAY PRACTICE NG DANCE KAPAG FEEL NYA MAKIPAG SEX AT ALAM NYA NA ALAM KO NA MALI ANG GINAGAWA AT PAKIRAMDAM KO AY HINDI TAMA ( HINDI NYA PINAPANSIN O BINABALI WALA NYA ) KAPAG FEEL NYA MAKIPAG SEX HINDI SYA TUMITIGIL NA IPARAMDAM SA AKIN NA AKO ANG MAI KASALANAN NG LAHAT PINA PA KUNSINSYA NA AKO AT SYA AY LAGI NA IPARAMDAM SA AKIN AKO ANG MAY KASALANAN NG LAHAT.
MAY TAO BANG GANYAN HINDI NA TAO YAN PARA SA AKIN KUNDI DIMONYO NA YAN SANA MAPAG SABIHAN SILA O KAYAY MAG PA SAYKAYATRIS O DOCTOR SA UTAK O PIKI HATED NAMAN TO SA CHURCH NILA PARA RIN ITO SA MGA TAO NA BAKA MA BIKTIMA NILA. KAHIT ANO PA SABIHIN NILA TANDAAN NYO SANA EVERY STORY THERE IS TWO VERSION.
SUBRANG LAKI NG PASASALAMAT KO SA DIOS NA TINUROAN NYA AKO NASA BIBLIA SA PSALM 51:6 NA ‘ SINCERITY AND TRUTH ARE WHAT YOUR REQUIRE; FILL MY MIND WITH YOUR WISDOM’ EVEAN THOUGH I MAY HAVE FEELINGS OF GUILT I SAY NOT BE THE GUILTY PARTY.
A RELATED ISSUE IS SHAME. YOU MAY FEEL THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU YOU MAY FELL THAT YOU ARE A BAD PERSON . PSALMS 139:14 SAYS,” I PRAISE YOU BECAUSE I AM FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE;YOUR WORK ARE WONDERFULL, I KNOW THAT FULL WELL.”
FINALLY, YOU SHOULD REALIZE THAT YOU CAN BE FREE FROM BEING A VICTIM AND AGREE WITH GOD THAT YOU CAN BE FREE. 2 CORINTHIANS 3:17 SAYS, “NOW THE LORD IS SPIRIT, AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS THERE IS FREEDOM.”
A key element in this area of berval abuse will no doubt be confrontation of the abuser. It’s important for you to realize that confrontation is a biblical principle. Jesus taught this in Matthew 18:15-20. I would also recommend that you seek help from pastor or counselor. But I would also recommend that you gather godly men and women together who can lovingly confront the person who is verbally abusing you. Their goal shuold be to break through his denial and lovingly restore him with a spirit of gentleness (galatians 6:1).
verbal abuse is a difficult emotional problem, but there is hope if the abuser is willing to confront his sin and get help
WAG KAU MANAHIMIK O BABALIWALA SANA MAWALA NA ANG TAO NA GANYAN AT HINDI NA TAO YAN TAMA ANG PAMANGKIN KO